Re: consciousness and carbon and ice-cream

Posted by pelastration on September 17, 2003 at 06:55:03:

In Reply to: Re: consciousness and lanecove posted by lanecove on September 16, 2003 at 13:59:02:

Lanecove,

You never stop hé. Always pushing further. When do you need to finish
your paper or book? ;-)

You said: It would seem that, in principle, you could derive, from your
models, that carbon-based chemistry will give rise to life, and that life will
give rise to brains, and as all brains have consciousness (I think that's what
you claim), consciousness is inevitable.

Dirk: I don't exclude other life shapes being conscious too. In our 'universe'
(a subset) the multi-layering of spacetime followed a mainly carbon-
system.
In our carbon-based system the infolding and multi-layering of spacetime
brings us - under certain conditions - communication systems like 'brains'.
But where is the brain of a tree? He also communicates, adapts it's
behavior, is aware of enemies, ... etc.
(BTW, plants have much simpler communications behavior so experiments
with them could reveal also systems used by humans).

To me awareness is a lower quality then consciousness.
Awareness is like a passive quality (stimulus-response)
Consciousness gives the ability to project 'virtual futures'. And choose one
of them, or keep some alternatives.

Therefor consciousness is not a given aspect to all brains. It's the
possibility to evaluate itself in relation to the surrounding. An example:
mercy. A tiger will not have mercy. Even if a human really dies of hunger he
has the liberty to give others the remaining food. An other aspect:
principles.

Lanecove: Can you derive, in principle, a time scale for this progression?
Dirk: non idea how to project this a concrete time. Computer-simulations
can help us here however.

Lanecove: Presumably, also, you can describe where else in the universe we
will find life, and how it will behave.
Dirk: I think my approach has not such predicting abilities. What can be
done is however build new sensors with this approach. I have tested
already some new concepts of antennas.
Conceptual it is possible to have some ideas about limits in extra-
terrestrial behavior but we must judge ourselves on that level as
flatlanders.

Lanecove: From your model, what is it about carbon that allows the
possibility of life?
Dirk: Carbon is (spacetime) layered is such a way that it has a lot of
possible connections (cfr. valence electrons) make long chains of molecules
with other atoms. Similar we have the large combinations possibilities of
oxygen and hydrogen. Together and joined by nitrogen you have an
incredible number of combinations possible. When you see each atom (and
each composing particle) as an (level-isolated) holon you can build up all
these life events ... and enjoy ice-cream.

Lanecove, what about your comments on point 3 and 4 ? ;-)

Dirk

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Follow Ups: (Reload page to see most recent)

• Re: consciousness and carbon and ice-cream -- lanecove 9/17/03 (8)
  • Re: consciousness and carbon and ice-cream -- pelastration 9/17/03 (7)
    • Re: consciousness and carbon and ice-cream -- lanecove 9/18/03 (6)
      • Re: consciousness and carbon and ice-cream -- pelastration 9/18/03 (5)
        • Red wine, holons, and quark soup -- lanecove 9/19/03 (4)
          • Re: Red wine, holons, and quark soup -- pelastration 9/20/03 (3)
            • Re: Red wine, holons, and quark soup -- lanecove 9/21/03 (2)
              • Re: Red wine, holons, and miso soup -- pelastration 9/21/03 (1)
                • deuterium cords and poles -- lanecove 9/21/03 (0)
• LOL! -- lanecove 9/17/03 (2)
  • Re: LOL! -- pelastration 9/17/03 (1)
    • Re: LOL! -- lanecove 9/19/03 (0)

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